LIFE ON MARS by Kai Magazine released

Oh wow, very nice! \o/

Wow, the styling of this game is really good! Well done!

One for me ( in English )

Hello, thank you all for your kind words

This is xbasic running in screen 5 (16 colors) on a turbo-r. Msx2 version (z80) runs at the same speed with moonsound, but at times it will skip 1 frame. The FM pac msx2 version runs even faster. We might have to slow it down.
So the next person who claims turbo basic is slow and useless, just show them this
This new engine is compatibilizing fm, music module, moonsound with sampled sound effects, z80 and r800, frameskipping and many other features, all made in turbo basic.
This engine can be used to create arcade games similar to rastan saga, sunset riders, ghoulds and ghosts, metal slug and many others, with beautifull graphics, fm or moonsound, and a very decent speed.
We will release the code in a few months (6 or so) and we will explain how it works so with a few modifications and the tools we will provide, creative msx users with a decent understanding of basic can create their own games.
It has room for a hardware smooth scroll for 2+ and turbo r but I removed it because turbo basic creates a flickering effect too anoying. If someone can create an small ASM subroutine to handle the scroll we can make it even better.

We will only release it on cartridge format this time.

Since this first batch of 50 cartridges is almost sold out we encourage you to place the orders the sooner the better.
We will make another batch of 50 cartridges more for the next month if we get enough orders, so after this first batch is sold out we will accept pre orders until we get to 50 more, to be produced and delivered on February.

As it has been explained above, the shipping will begin next week for the spanish version and in 10 days approx for the english version.

Thank you everyone for your support
Enjoy!

Uhu, and inferno does not have stolen graphics...

Please tell me i can buy from you a .rom version to use on my megaflashromsccsd.
I promise i will never give this .rom to anyone.
But i cannot get more cart in my house !11

Please remember this is an 8bit msx2 with 16 colors. The GBA is a 16 buit with hardware specs way beyond, similar to the SNES.
We were unable to make a 1:1 port, but we did what we could.

(by the way, there are many msx ports from other games such as uridium and many others, no problem there, right?)

regarding the costs: 39 euro include the game cartridge (which those are not cheap at all, we are not talking about a floppy disk), box, cartridge folder and full color instruction manual.
Once you deduce all the costs from the physical production of the game, whatever little remains consider it for all the msx coding, the creation of the moonsound musics, the fm and music module adaptation, complete mapping of the game, and many other original graphics, such as the ones on the intro, main menu, box, enemies, characters, and many areas of the game.

So, basically, 90 per cent of the game...

I find this response very disingenuous. I don't think you meant to get caught. At least it doesn't seem this way when you're accepting praise from people who don't realize what they're looking at is a plethora of stolen art, so the style is not yours.

You also don't really need to educate me on the cost breakdown of your game. I am aware of the costs of PCBs and chips, printed materials. and the amount of effort involved in creating a game.

He isn't porting anything. Borrowing art and putting a game together from it is not porting.

Life On Mars doesn't exist elsewhere to be ported to MSX.

Stealing != Porting.

Arkhan, legally there is no difference at all, both are unlicensed use of assets from a third party. In the case of a port, you also infringe on trademark and content like story and music, whereas in this title there’s quite a lot more original work in comparison. If you can tolerate the one you should tolerate the other IMO . You can be against it, but at least be consistent .

Anyway, let’s not put too much of a downer on this nice new MSX2 game shall we. Point made, point taken, good to be aware of. Doesn’t need to turn into a multi-page burnfest. Now get mad at the maker of Flappy Bird who made a shit ton of money on Mario art .

Thank you for your perspective, we will consider it in the future, perhaps in 6 months or so.
Our aim is oviously not the profit.
We invested near 1000 hours on the production of this game, which is an equivalent of more than 5 months working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
To be profitable we should earn at least 1200 euro * 5 = 6000 euro.
We will sell between 50 to 100 copys on any format. At a profit of 10 euro for each copy, that makes between 500 to 1000 euro tops.
If it is money what we would want, we would have spent those hours by making something for android and iphone (we ARE in fact doing something for android and iphone as well).

The MSX never had a metroid, and we wanted to make one. At least similar.

Also, this was something unplanned. I was working on a fast engine for another game (kai's rage) to work fast on z80 with moonsound, and while testing the performance with several characters at the same time, it occurred to me to make a mini game (bomb tournament) which was ready only after 4 weekends. But we also wanted to create some 1 player contens, so I used this storyline I developed for a screen 8 graphic adventure I had in mind, about the research of life forms in the water of mars.
This small casual mini game became a macro production of 1000 hours... But because we wanted to do something beautifull and never done before on msx.
There is no profit on msx unless you create or port mini or simple games that fit on 64k cartridges and only requiere 100 or 200 hours of total developement.

Anyway, our previous games were sold on disk, megarom and digital format.
We sold near 100 disks, near 100 cartridges, and 5 or 6 digital versions.
Those are the facts we have...

But thanks anyway! As I said, we will contemplate it in the future.
Regards!

I am not sure if you know really know what the word "port" means.

The point here is someone passing off another artist's work as their own creations, while asking 39EUR for it, and then claiming it's a port, when it's not, likely because the cat is out of the bag.

Nobody should have to tolerate paying for stolen goods.

A port is a completely different story, because you go into it expecting it to be a thing that already exists that is not that person's creation...

and as such, you likely wouldn't expect to pay for an unlicensed port, because you'd hope the creator isn't going to be that mental to go and ask money for something like that.

I think you've radically missed the point while trying to dig yourself out of the ditch.

Using pixelated renditions inspired by real works/people is not the same as literally taking exact tiles of art from someone else's game, followed by lying about it or flat out omitting that the theft exists...

homage is not a synonym for theft.

I am not saying it is a port, it is not, I said 90'% of the work is originaly ours, and we spent arround 1000 hours creating it.
Most games have ideas, concepts, and modified things from other things... or are copys from other things...
A port should have less merit than this; only because I used some concepts and some tiles from metroid (since I was creating something very similar to metroid, it makes sense) it does not mean I am a thief and a stealer and everything we did is crap, and we should go to jail, and etc....
The story, most graphics, enemies, musics, coding... 90 per cent of the game is made by us.
Try to get over it, man...
Also we arew not running a multi billion dollar operation here, we are 2 msx users who will distribuye less than 50 or 100 copys for almost no profit at all, so calm down, bro...

Done what? Trying to discuss things while you sit there like an obtuse knob, contributing nothing but pointless "raaaage" statements? lol.

Stealing someone else's art quite literally means you are a thief, lol. Nor does justifying the theft due to "we're making a similar game" make it OK.

The bulk of the tilework seems to be lifted from another game. This is shady, especially when you're asking for money.

I personally don't think you had any intention of mentioning that you stole artwork until it was pointed out. Your back pedaling, deflection, and weak justifications imply this.

And yet you think unlicensed ports are different? Uridium was also sold you know. And Archomage. And Sonyc. And Gauntlet. And Jawbreaker. There are such numerous examples. Do you give them such amounts of flak? I don’t get it, truly. It just doesn’t make sense to make such a distinction.

Also, you’re not “trying to discuss”, it’s more like raging and attacking.

Most grahics are originally made by me, if it helps...

I needed to borrow because the game had to be ready for the past barcelona msx reunion.
Also, I really love metroid fusion and I wanted to see some of those screens on the msx, as close as possible to the original, without trying to hide them or modify them to decieve anyone.
Many others are made by me.

Anything else?

Can you explain why you made no mention of borrowed graphics until it was pointed out? The whole thing seems awfully suspicious, and isn't helped by strange reasonings/defenses/backpedaling/deflecting.

@Grauw: You're kind of a giant waste of time. You're just spouting platitudes, nonsense, reaching overstatements, and sarcastic/flippant uselessness. It's honestly making this situation worse. In case you have not noticed, there *is* in fact a discussion taking place, if you'd take off your foil hat and piss off with the assumption that there's rage and attacking going on.

The proxy issues aren't really gone. I brought it up twice, and it went unresolved (shocking), so I just fixed it myself.

I'm not really fine with remakes either. I generally do not buy things chock full o' art from a game I already own, that was done better on a different machine.

Clones (read: all original stuff), sure.
Copy pasta eyeballed remakes? Not really.

You won't see me raising a fuss about them regardless, though. As stated, those games aren't trying to be deceitful.

lying by omission is indeed a thing.

You can drop the sarcastic/condescending bit, too. What are you, 12?

Arkhan: it's not really a discussion, just the addition of two monologues. That's not really new, as there has always been 2 conflictual sides on the Dutch MSX scene, with some extension outside The Netherlands, all that for a hobby !!!

I don't know, it's generally good practice to state, and credit when you lift things from somewhere else. Just because a bunch of other groups are doing something dumb does not mean you should join in...

AFAIK, I have not shown any disrespect towards you, just a bit of accusing/questioning about your motives. I think you are really over-exaggerating this supposed rage/hate/frustration and trying to instigate a pity party. It's more a question of why. The reason is fueled by shock/awe more than anything.

and to be fair, some of your commentary is laced with a bit of snark and passive aggression. So, before you go playing this pity party thing like I stormed in and booted you square in the dick, think about that.

now, Grauw on the other hand, whatever. It takes two to tango, and he instigated most of that himself through his flippant nonsense. Not surprising, and par for the course. I remember now why I rarely read or post on this forum.

Sure Arkhan, you are right and you have the higher moral standards.
Noone should rip graphics or concepts or styles under any circumstance, and if they do, they should state it transparently.
I have learned my lesson from you.
I just found out you "created" a few games yourself.
Let's take a look at them andto your original work, shall we?

Piramid plunder:

An explorer who looks for treasures on piramids. Hmm... the plot seems familiar.
Wait! who is the protagonist?? the guy from king's valley 2!!
Ah no, wait, the hat is brown instead of blue... My bad.
And the mummy's?
http://www.aetherbyte.com/images/pyramid_plunder_screenshot0...
Completelly different...
Price: 42 DOLLARS!

Next: insanity

What?? who is the protagonist?? it cannot be, it is too good to be true!! it is SAMUS from metroid 1 nes!!
Price: 27 USD!!

Next: Protocade.

Or as we call it on msx, "tron"

This one we call asteroids
And this one...

You oviously invented it from scratch.

And now the one you made for msx:
inferno

With graphics from several PC engine (Turbo graph) games, such as "the legendary sword".
Look at the protagonist climbing the stairs, and search the lengendary sword video on youtube and look for the protagonist to climb stairs.
But the atack is different. Remind you of something?? Rastan saga.
And about the backgrounds...

[img]http://www.msxgamesworld.com/images/capturas/Inferno%20(Aetherbyte%20Studios,%202012)%20(4).png[/img]

A 10 euro discount on "life on mars" for the first who guesses where is that red skull from, and many of those tiles!!

tHE SAME FOR ALL THE OTHER GAMES, AND NONE ARE FREE OR CHEAP

HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME SUCH A SPEECH ABOUT RIGHT OR WRONG, ABOUT NOT TAKING GRAPHICS OR TILES, TO STATE IT IF YOU DO (THERE IS NO SUCH STATEMENT ON YOU WEB PAGE) AND CALLING ME THIEF, WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS??!! NOT ONLY THE GRAPHICS, BUT THE CONCEPTS, GAMEPLAY, AND EVEN SOME MUSICS!!
HOW CAN EXIST SOMEONE WITH SUCH LITTLE SHAME??!!
HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR???

ARE YOU INSANE???? ARE YOU SO NEEDY FOR ATTENTION THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK?? EVEN ACCUSING THEM OF ALL THE THINGS YOU DID MANY TIMES BEFORE??
HOW CAN ANYONE DO THIS AND SAY ALL THIS WHEN YOU RIPPED ALL THE GRAPHICS, CONCEPTS AND GAMEPLAY FOR YOUR GAMES???!!

ARE YOU MENTALLY ILL?? HAVE YOU NO SHAME AT ALL??!!

You should get banned from this forum or any other msx forum.

Looks great, cant wait to receive my copy. Well done Kai!

Although it would have been more 'gentleman like' to mention in the news post by the authors that part of the tiles were taken from another game, I don't give a darn about it, I'm just happy some very impressive new cool game has been created for MSX2!
And I'm also very happy that the author is willing to share his engine and the tricks he used to pull this off in MSX-Basic-kun!

(If you're inspired, perhaps you can once make a new batch with replaced graphics? Don't do it for me though, I don't give a darn.)

i love working games in basic.

Kai wrote "First, anyone who has ever played metroid will see that some areas are taken from there, I was fully aware of that, but considering the msx games that have been published over the last 20 years (bombaman, sonyc, uridium, batman msx2, gauntlet msx2, who dares wins msx2, Ghoulds and ghosts, and basically most games that have been developed the last 2 decades, have a large amount of tiles "stolen", so, while I was 100% sure that many people would recognize elements from metroid (oviously), I would have never guessed that someone would have minded, and even less with this energy.
I do not know what kind of nerve has been touched there but I belive this is not normal.

You made your point. Good for you. Now check the last 20 years msx catalog. Get over it bro..."

We have the rights from Hewson and Graftgold to develope and sell Uridium for MSX. But, aniway, don't let people to ruin your live as a MSX2 developer. Continue your way Kai. We are gonna get more from you than the other that only talk and talk but really do not does anything.

.

Kai: there is a difference between things that look similar/paying homage to something and downright copying. The first is usually okay and generally accepted, while the second a lot of people don't like. If you look at Arkhans products, they may be inspired by other games but you can see the graphics are new/self-draw while in Life On Mars you imported graphics from Metroid Fusion.

Anyway Life On Mars looks okay, it shows you can do nice things with a 16 color palette. The game is 512KB so is it very big (from gameplay point of view like many levels/big map) ? or is most of it used for the moonsound samples? Is the game a classic platform game with different seperate levels or more like the real metroid with 1 big open map with backtracking/puzzles/many items etc etc?

While I do have an opinion too, I'm not going to bother my time with this discussion. I do want to quote this though!

Please don't mention Uridium in a list of unlicensed work or 'stolen' intellectual property.

To change a color does not turn the graphic into "self drawn". By that principle I changed the colors as well, so...
He tried to hide the fact that he stole the graphics by modifying them a little bit, and accused me of doing the same while I did not hide such fact.
Also, most of them had to be modified to fit in a 16 color palete, but I tried to make them look as close to the original as possible. Do not think that it did not took a lot of work to show metroid fusion graphics on the msx, it was quite hard. If you do not belive me, just try it...
The rom is 512k but the rom is compressed. The game is 720k exactly.
The memory used for samples is 55k. No more. The rest are graphics, maps, musics, coding, etc.
As I said on facebook, it is a "metroidvania", a big map with backtracking, you will be able to access more areas of the map as you pick objects. There are power ups, bombs, the hability to jump higher, breackable walls to find secret rooms with hidden objects, etc.
The game is not long, we went for quality and variety instead of quantity, and the maps take a lot of memory.

The future of MSX Development: Finding flaws in every new release and bashing it into infinity, rather than celebrating it with perhaps some side remarks. I’ve seen this too often and am getting sick of it.

Did you read all this thread?
did you read we spent 1000 hours of developement?
Did you read that all intro graphics, box, characters, enemies, maps, musics, storyline, most tiles, and all the coding is original?
So because we got SOME tiles from metroid we have no merit at all? all this work is worthless? Really? are you going to focus on that, only?
Really? we just ripped graphics and we did put them on sale? we did nothing else?

you are being melodramatic about what a simple statement of "hey, you jacked a bunch of Nintendo tiles and now you're selling it."

I hope you don't get reemed for it. Nintendo has been known to go after people for basically what you are doing.

Do not even bother, Xavi. I have been pointed out that this character was banned from this forum under another nickname for doing basically the same thing to other developers, and he will never stop. This is his hobby.
Just ignore him. his intentions have been discovered already, his credibility destroyed, and his lack of ethics at criticizing others for doing the same thing he has been doing himself.
He just has nothing better to do... He will not stop.
Now it is up to the moderators to do something about it.

Good Point Grauw. I agree.
I think, to summarise that the problem isn't gfx ripped or not, turbo basic or not... the problem is free or not free.
If this new Kai Magazine game was free then no "flaws" in the thread. Trust me. I've a bit experience in this matter.

I was never banned from this forum. Whoever told you that is completely wrong, much like how you were with your sweeping accusations and attempts at deflecting. I am *still* waiting for you to produce the sources for my stolen sounds, music, and most currently, the Inferno art. I think you overplayed your hand there when it would have been best to not say anything.

My intention was to point out that you're charging 39EUR for a game full of Nintendo tiles, which is fair. Nowhere was any of this mentioned, and I highly doubt most of the praisers or people interested had any clue about this. It sure looks like there was an attempt to fool people.

You danced around the issue. It was very disingenuous. You tried to deflect. You played the pity card. You joined in on attempted flaming while complaining about drama.

You guys are seriously being dumb. I am not Guyver. I am Arkhan. The American person. Mars, you KNOW this. Look at my join date. Use like, half an ounce of common sense.

There is some weird issue where MSX.org won't let me view/post and gives some proxy error half the time when I try to use the site. I've mentioned it to John Hassink on numerous occasions. Go ask him if you don't believe me.

Though, crap like this literally proves Guyver's point about how some people here have some obsession with him. he's not even doing anything and people are assuming he is.

That's pretty moronic.

Arkhan - I've read the thread and your communicative and social skills are appalling. Act like that and however right you are people will get annoyed and frustrated. Especially when you start to piss on people who have just released a production they are proud of into the world.

I understand why people mix you up with good old G, because your style of interaction is strikingly similar. Nobody is peeing nobody's pants, you're just making a huge deal about something that's really not worth putting so much energy in. If you don't want to buy the game, don't buy it. Move on. Enjoy your moral highground.

Glad I made you laugh. Keep smiling!

Wow. What an discussions here. I don't want to say anything about the discussion. The game looks very nice and it seems that it was a lot of work to make it. Very cool game atmosphere!

I just bought it

Actually, I wasn't undermining effort. In fact, I even stated that MSX Kai doesn't need to educate me on the effort involved. At no point did I deny him of any effort put in. Also, at no point did I say the whole effort was a waste.

You guys are now just fabricating things in a very hyperbolic fashion all due to me pointing out something negative. You'll also note, the only thing I pointed out was the lifted tilework, and what seemed like an attempt to never make mention or credit to it.

I also did not put "so much effort" into pointing these things out. The hyperbole in this thread is approaching terminal velocity. You realize other people have said the same, or similar things, right?

@Meits: Not nearly as boring as your usual, never changing nonsense regard Guyver, and associating all things you don't like with him like some kind of goon.

Grow up. Seriously. You dingleberries don't get to simultaneously bitch about drama, while helping fuel it. That is called counter-productive.

I am not sure when you guys are going to fully grasp these sorts of things.

Nice channel, #msxdev. I wonder why their compo failed.

Posting some chatlog on here, is actually a very low move. Especially if the people who it does even concern, don't get the chance to even comment on it!

The level of discussion was allready below average, but this is a very childish move.

@Hydragon: If you start a certain tone of discussion, it's usually not very likely that things will improve. Childish? Maybe, but this kind of sockpuppetting/spoon-feeding has been going on for years and I won't have it any more on MRC.

In another topic I mentioned self-reflection. Perhaps some regulars at #msxdev can do a little bit of that and wonder if their behaviour is really that exemplary of common etiquette. Please let me know if you still want to discuss morality after that.

Nobody is an actual angel, they might have lost their wings, but same with others here in the topic acting like innocent people in the discussion, so if morality is a game of back-stabbing, thx, but no thx. And in my own opinion, you as being a wm / crew member of MRC posting some chatlog, yes I do think that is a disappointing low blow move, and that is all I have to say about it. And since u wanted me to let me to let you know if I wanted to discuss, well my opinion about it has just been stated and that is about it.

That chatlog made me decide a few things. I believe I have been friendly to the people there in any way I could. In fact I feel deeply backstabbed by these people right now and by now I am sure they love my reaction. So this is how we treat people nowadays and this is how we talk about each others back. The fact that these people are still getting support is a mystery to me.

This chatlog just dented my pleasure for doing things. MSX should be fun it should be enjoyed but right now its a piece of metal and plastic standing on my desk. I am deeply dissapointed, not just in those doing these acts but especially in the people supporting this.

Thank you snout for clearing this up. Posting this chatlog has cleared things up.

We should ban people like this not only on MRC but from big fairs as well.

In the meanwhile I need to make desicions about the future of the project. Motivation has become 0 and I don't won't trouble with nintendo. We will see.

Hmmm If was demotivated by logs forums or stuff about my games... damn i never made a game after my first. try. i remember ppl were talking not buying my game becourse its made in basic.

I understand if ppl do not like it becourse of re-use of not own made gfx. but that must just motivate you to make even a greater game!

I do msxing for fun and make games for even more fun.(and alcohol use)

so learn from the good and enjoy!

By the way, thank you everyone for the private messages you are sending me showing your support and placing orders.
I am sorry the game will be delayed due to last time changes on some tiles.
You are all great! the MSX community is still strong, and the facts are showing this.
Thank you ever so much to all of you for your support, really, with all my heart!

Now don't fret too much I'd say.. I don't really think 'fuqer'/Arkhan is serious about informing big N (also note the lol following his remark..)

One game purchased! I can wait even four weeks

Thank's Kai

Regards
Marko

After reading again and having some conversations it is indeed true what you say. I misunderstood the context of the words. Sadly that is the danger of writing as the letters are the only thing you can do the interpretations on. It must also be clear that my previous post may have been send too fast. While it has allready caused damage. I hope that this rectification eases the matters. My sincere apologies towards those I have acused prematurely.

Maybe because I am one of the most affected parties here, I see clearly snout's point:

There is a group of people who sabotages other people's work for pitiful reasons, such envy or whatever reason, I do not know, and a particular person uses a particular practice to manage this wihout actually being here.

This time was Life on Mars turn, and snout saw it, and put an end to it.
Not only that, but he also alerted me and others that this people are doing this practice for long, which will help me to protect better my projects in the future and not to engage with suspiciously asked questions.

This is also a helpful warning for any other msx lovers who intend to develope anything.

Thanks again, snout, I was totally clueless of this facts and this information helped me (and I am sure others as well) a lot.

@Kai Magazine : You kinda sound like a drama queen atm, since you should have known before releasing the game, people would comment about things as in ripping gfx. A development is one thing, but receiving critic on something you could have expect is something you could have taken care of, by making for example releasing it as a pre-release and the actual release with own made stuff. Would have saved a lot of discussion and arguements in here!
Some talk about self-reflecting to ones that critised "your" work, now self-reflect your own mistakes.

Really...?
Do you really belive that?
Bottom line, it has all been for the best, and no harm done?
no harm done??

holy crap...
Only good intentions were involved in this, right?
there was no intention to harm...

""
[22:00] {fuqer} fucking dicktards
[22:03] {GuyveR800} they're all idiot clappers

[22:29] {GuyveR800} I wonder what carnage will ensue

[22:49] {GuyveR800} I wonder if Kai Magazine, with his famous Kickstarter campaign, will finally fall out of grace with the Msx Retard Community
[22:50] {BiFi} or fall even more into it

[22:54] {fuqer} i should alert nintendo to this
[22:55] {GuyveR800} that might alert them to the S..... "port" too
""

Yes, indeed, pure goodnes and good intentions...
No harm done...

C'MON!
Don't even try, please... I respect you. Don't disappoint me...

My point is that whenever GuyveR800 or one of his minions enters the scene on MRC, the atmosphere goes down the drain, because the tone of voice easily offends people. Of all the possible ways one could point out and ask about ripped graphics the discussion goes straight for the jugular in a way that is only bound to result in a heated discussion.

You can see the exact moment in this thread with Arkhan's post that was inspired by GuyveR's actions on #msxdev. The part I was even kind enough to leave out makes it even more clear:

From then on, mod alerts come flooding in from all sides, MRC and individual crew members are receiving e-mails and meanwhile the discussion spirals out of control. Nobody wants that in the MSX community and apparently preventing GuyveR800 to voice his opinions on MRC (by proxy) is the only way to keep the discussions light and friendly.

Clearly shows that G800 & co are aware of the effects of their behavior. So if they are such saints, such great minds, such innocent and brilliant MSX community members... Why did they never ever consider changing their tone of voice? Could it perhaps be that they thrive on heated discussions like this? That they would do anything to fuck things up on MRC? Even if it is because they just don't know better, the final result is the same: shit hitting the fan. People getting hurt, discussions going wild.

So be it, after more than a decade of this bullshit there's not a lot of tolerance I have left for this behaviour and the obvious outcome. Syn may be right that the final result (original GFX) is a great plus, but there were countless more pleasant routes to arrive at that destination. And everybody who is not willing to take those routes can funk my trunk and find some other place to be a complete ass.

Do not feed the trolls.

aaaand a case of

Anyway, I checked the youtube video and I was surprised this can be done on the msx. The same goes for that work in progress. Who would have thought that that can be done. Great job !

2 Peter 2: 1,18,19
But false prophets also arose among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. ...

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

Yeah

I know I did, and have chatted with norakomi about it so that's past-matters to me now. Anyway, I assume you're implying the fact that it was released by TNI?

uh, nono, that is a completely different category of unlicensed work than Manbow 2. Except for the stupid title, it is a respectful fan-remake.

OMG how much crap was spilled over all these pages! This must be the way to kill hobbyist developers. I'm just glad each time I see a good MSX game! KAI, keep up the good work and bring us more stuff for our belved MSX computers . Down with trolls and assholes!

If you have not shipped yet, why not adding PCM sfx (on SCC) ?

OMG!!! What a big ball of bullshit in this thread about the new Kai's work. I can't believe really exist this kind of people planning and thinking about how to fuck and sink the other's efforts. There weren't ANY constructive comments or correct matters from them! Really this is a ¡¡shame!!!

Of course, I have reserved my Life of Mars copy weeks ago. We can test it in the Retro Granada event this weekend and the game is great! We were even discussing about how to proud we can feel MSX users about the the large and quality new developments in the scene. After tested it I can say that the price is right. Even more, I know all the time and worries behind this development. I'm sure they doesn't expect this last one stab in their backs. Really are we claiming about re-use graphics? In the past we swallowed PC-88 conversion, spectrum graphics, or even captured ones. To re-use console graphics is the best solution to build a "professional-look" game for and not professional development without need to contract a full-time designer team for a almost-no return investment project. This thread literally almost "kill" all the MSX-scene. Kai never hidden it, because in the spanish forum he explained his project about "a MSX Metroid game" all the time...

Xavi and Oscar, I'm sure that you have full support of the all(sane) MSX community. Forget, the rest.... "They do not exist, those blinded by ambition; those consumed with vengeance..." (warning: the last quotes was "ripped" from Garou - Mark of the Wolves; please don't run to warn SNK lawyers yet :hannibal: )

Thank you for your works!! Keep going!! And of course, you dont need to change the graphics. Don't waste time in change them, because they can always say you ripped "metrovania concept", ambient music from -putyourfavouritethrillermovienamehere- , fonts, etc.

P.S.: My avatar was ripped too! Sorry for it ;)

Thanks!

wow.. days getting really short.. people spending more time behind their PC.. nothing else to do.. getting bored and starting to do this kind of shit...

Kai: sorry.. I'm a bit tight on budget for MSX right now, if not I would love to buy it..
Daemos: keep going, would love to play on my beloved old MSX!

Thank you Moniz, do not worry, we hopefully will make a second batch in the following months, so you will be able to purchase it in the future

Draco Frisco and any other interested; due to the conversation maintained on this thread:
conversation
We propposed a social experiment regarding the release of the game on digital format (.rom)
If we reach a list of 20 potential digital buyers or more, by February 1st, we will ask for the payment then (15 euro), and send the .rom and all related contents in digital format to the buyers.
There is a list of 3 people in this experiment. If you are interested, add your name there, and post the full list. (there or here, I do not care).
Let us see if there are really as many digital buyers as they say (I really doubt we will get to 10 names on that list, but I hope I am wrong)

Thanks Kai for your great job, one cartridge for me !

I, as a no game player and owner of only functional hardware cartridges, almost feel persuaded to buy the digital version.

Just for the fun of proving you wrong... I'll sleep on it... Can't hurry such huge decisions you see

I might even start poking other people to join as well... You have to loose this bet

Please do!

Kai Magazine made a great job. The Game looks very nice and what kind of graphics where ripped or not ... that interest me like the weather 10 years ago. I still have a Turbo R St but I dont know if it works or not. That means that you, Kai Magazine, can count on me buying a .rom Version for playing that nice stuff on BlueMSX. I could understand that you want to sell cartridges at first, but after a couple of month ... remember me!

Thanks for your great work Kai and Xavi!
99% of the MSX comunity suports you
Dont ear the trolls and continue your great work.
Of course I want a copy of Life on Mars.
Un abrazo Oscar y Xavi

@Kai I understand you are going ahead with some gfx/tile changes. I do hope you're going ahead with this because it feels for you it is the right/proper thing to do, and not out of, let's say, yielding to fear?
(And these 'fixed' tiles will be in both versions I assume?)

I'm the owner of a barely functional NMS 8220 with no diskdrive. I very much appreciate people still spending time creating things for MSX, and I like to see and play new things. It saddens me to see the many patronizing comments about emulator users. Not everybody appreciates having multiple computers and collecting masses of physical cartridges and the remaining MSX-interested community is too small to belittle and alienate a part of it like that.

A couple of years ago, I downloaded a copy of Manbow2 to evaluate the game. Just as a token of appreciation for the maker, I then went on to actually buy it. Not that I really needed the physical cartridge though, it's only collecting dust somewhere. Also, I guess the real profit margin that went to the maker this way (if any) is smaller than when he would have sold it as a digital copy for half the price.

The € 15 offer is a very commendable and mature step after all the unconstructive comments surrounding this thread. If it can be ordered and paid for by regular SEPA bank transfer, count me in for a copy!

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with Arkhan on this one. The fact that Konami did steal content too doesn't mean that what you did was right. It only means that you both are guilty. See the Two wrongs make a right fallacy.

I find it very dishonest that you "forgot to mention" that you took the artwork from somewhere else and are trying to make money on this.

Excuses.You didn't "need to borrow". You weren't able to create graphics on time? Sucks, but in that case the right thing to do is to release later.

I have a mixed opinion on the gfx matter. I feel it strongly depends on the motives of the maker.

1.) The person is making a game and makes no profit from it. The person does it for himself and shares the game with the community. Revenue=0. I don't care. Even if the game is built like a huge puzzle out of everything the maker could find. I don't care. I would pay for the product if the end quality is good knowing I am covering production costs

2.) The person is making a game and makes some revenue 20-100 euro per batch. he can take himself out for the night. good accomplishment. Some reward for the hard work. Still wouldn't mind. He is not making a living, he is just seeing some reward for the things he done himself. If all would be ripped, well shame on you but the coding is still a good job.

3.) The person is making a lot of extra money out of it. 500-2000 euro's Barely acceptable. now we are getting in the reselling zone. While not truly stealing. It is still making money on a few things that weren't done by yourself. If admitted openly and known how much is made on each batch I might consider buying if the product contains minimal amount of ripped gfx and the quality is really good.

4.) the person is seriously making a living out of it. 1000 euro's per batch. Even though people say this cannot happen in MSX land I am sure there are people that can do it. Extra money in the pocket each month counts into this category as well. I would definitely not buy. Now we are talking serious theft and if not openly admitting that there is serious revenue on the ripped gfx I actually get really pissed off!

You're right. I'm replying to messages as I read the thread.

Fantastic! And that's how things are done.

No. Arkhan didn't start with a rant or a flame war. He pointed in a neutral tone that Kai's artwork is stolen. Kai started making excuses and Arkhan responded also in a neutral tone, and then several people start attacking Arkhan, who in my opinion is in the right.

This was his first message:

Can you please point where's the rant and flame war?

This was his second message:

What part of the post above is not true?

At around that point in the conversation you have Kai in his habitual drama queen style posting nonsense excuses, and four or five other people attacking Arkhan for having dared to criticize the poor Kai.

Sorry, but I can't blame Arkhan for getting annoyed. Most likely I would have reacted in the same way.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. The graphics were indeed ripped from Metroid Fusion. What's the attack?

Because I'm reading this now.

I wouldn't care either if he had been honest about it from the beginning. However, he wasn't, and it's not the first time that Kai tries to take credit for artwork taken from other productions.

Praising Kai for stealing graphics would be an insult to the ones who produce quality original content such as Relevo, Nenefranz, and others.

Normally I would agree and on another day I might have made a different choice, but it's not the first time I've received extensive chat logs where seditious discussions on #msxdev directly related to controversial actions on msx.org. As in this case. I've kept the amount of text I quoted from the long log to a minimum and never before chose to go public with the information I received. I thought it was time people found out what was really going on & has happened a plethora of times in the past.

I don't see where we frown upon honesty, but we do frown upon trolling behaviour. A pile of moderator alerts is usually a good indication something is at hand. I've pointed out in previous posts in this topic that there are many ways to make a point, all we ask is to not do it in a way that is bound to cause friction. And when you notice you've caused some friction, don't turn up the heat.

The doors have been open for him many times - under his known names and alter ego's - and each and every time the result was the same: an amazing amount of friction between him and other users, sooner or later spiralling out of control. I feel little reason to try that experiment again.

Then again, it appears you have some beef with Kai Magazine (like I won't deny I have with G), but manage to voice it in a way that doesn't result in a pile of moderator alerts. At its very core, this is all about common etiquette. Just because PAC didn't mention the origin of the graphics in the newspost doesn't mean Kai was (deliberately) dishonest about it.

Personally I don't feel this way and I honestly feel that we gave Patriek plenty of chances. The way he interacted with other community members was often the reason to step in.

I think he's banned because he's acted like a dick here more than once? If I ran a forum, I sure as hell would kick anyone out who doesn't have the social competencies to interact with other fellow beings on a normal and respectful level. Then again I would probably not have the energy to run a forum that sometimes seems like an elementary school in the first place.

Interesting choice of words.

Pointing out something that is true isn't trolling, and the conversation got heated not because of Arkhan's criticism, but because of the way Kai refused to accept responsibility and acted as the victim. It didn't help either that you refused to see this situation and admonished Arkhan, but not Kai nor the others who jumped to Arkhan's neck.

Do not confuse criticism with trolling. Arkhan's criticism was justified.

But making excuses after it's being pointed is. Kai should have admitted the fact that he indeed ripped the graphics from Metroid, instead of using red herrings such as having spent 1000 hours of development or asserting that 90% of the content is original, when it's obvious that it's not.

MRC's administration is not impartial, I have personally suffered discrimination here about the news releases that are really posted, ignoring the rest.

By example, there is WIP (work in progress) news for .... each little improvements for that ZIP utility?, or WIP for this games, so WIP is allowed?, ok.... and a news about v0.97 to v0.98 update is allowed? ok...

But my news submits didn´t come out since the year 2014, and some of them for some milestones has been reached.

And is not that it is a huge activity that was needed to reduce the news post ammount.... no, it is a quite quiet scene. So, nosense. I don't finds an explanation. So, feels discriminated one and again and again.

So, I feel MRC is so impartial about news submits, and if I as developer feel it impartial, why it is not impartial about moderating the forums?, it is the same ppl behind. Sure, MRC's administration is not right always.

And not, I am not a minion of GuyveR800, I feels myself independent, but sometimes visits the irc channel. MRC dissapointme sometimes, but I am not dissapointed of be part of MSX, so that keep me going on.

haha.. :)
(no disrespect mrc people/admins.. ;))
(will perhaps post something more constructive later ;))

It’s because I submitted the news post for “that zip utility” (I assume you mean gunzip) in a way that it’s ready to be placed on the front page; written in 3rd person, interesting content, good english, relevant link at the bottom. 0 effort from the msx.org staff was required.

If a news submission needs a lot of editorial work, it can take much longer, because the msx.org staff doesn’t have a lot of time to write and edit newsposts so it stays in the queue. This has nothing to do with being discriminatory. If you take care to write a good newspost, it’ll be up in no-time.

For the same reason the SofaUnzip 1.0 newspost was delayed by 3 weeks even though it was released on the same day as Gunzip 1.1. This does not mean the MRC staff hates Louthrax, it just means that the effort was postponed, because the admins are normal people with normal lives who sometimes procrastinate on chores.

Back to gunzip, the releases were accompanied by a lot of forum discussion and community collaboration, and sparked several spin-off projects, so I would hope it was relevant news to the community. There were just two newsposts by the way, so “a newspost for every little improvement” is a bit uh… I’m sorry you didn’t like my project? (tongue in cheek)

Bored.

Well, My experience with #MsxDev, is that if I asks something in a new forum thread at MRC, can pass as fast as two days for anybody to reply it, with an answer?, no, just a nosense reply, maybe a week or too week to somebody come in with a smart answer.

So, I join #MsxDev and as fast I get a good answer in minutes, and but sometimes everybody is AFK and can take it as two or three hours.

And I started joining , this year I joined like 10 to 20 times already in the whole year. In 2014 the same, from 2008 to 2013 I did a pause, before was more active, but real life... you know.

Anyway, I thinks it is a good channel for solving problems, and it seems to be 20 times more DEV activity there than in MRC, but "there" is not a website, just IRC, it is not a window to show things to the comunity, so MRC is more aiming to show things, than to help developing and so.

Now, that one joining #MsxDev , to be "brainwashed minion" that is too far from reality, overall for smart ppl, where you know, smart ppl are not suitable to be brainwashed, because everyone has its own opinion based on what them saw or ear. And as MRC is public domain, everybody know what the "two bells" was.

@flyguille - I'm not saying #msxdev has no purpose or only serves as an anti-MRC platform. If it's a good place for you to progress your development that's just great. Others might have different experiences there. I kind of was part of the birth of #msxdev and have seen GuyveR's kickban actions up close, understanding in retrospect why they did not want him to become an op at #msx.

Either way, what I am saying is that #msxdev has repeatedly served as a platform for initiating or coordinating actions against MRC, crew members or specific individuals. As in this case.

Flyguille: nobody here has anything against you, you’re a great guy with interesting past and present projects.

News posts have been a bit of a mess for some time, because they require active staff and editorial work (I called them “chores” for a reason), and when motivation is lacking delays arise, and sometimes something may be so much after the fact that perhaps the news is dropped (idk, just that’s what I think may have happened). Either way, it’s a known problem that’s got nothing to do with you personally, I hope the SofaUnzip example I gave showed that. As I said, the best way to avoid it is to do the work for them.

p.s. If you ever have programming topics, I’m happy to think along, I like those kind of threads .

Oh, comeon, he isn't hittler, he don't has that power as "coordinate... blah blah blah".

If someone else is going do anything it is in his own mind, guyver don't brainwashed anybody. You are overestimating him a lot.

And yes, sometime there is a newbie asking a dumb question that can be solve in 30 secons googling, and nobody is willing to answer it, it that guy insist.....a kick is the rule, happened to me too, and I then understand that was a dumb question for that channel, I accepted and continue with the 30 seconds of google, and come back with a smarter question.

So if other guy just saw the kick, and get angry, well, maybe other place is more suitable for that guy.

I am not saying that a irc-kick is a good way to shut up somebody, because maybe who is kicked (not banned), don't finally understand why, and that is nothing personal. And the the guy go other place, and blah blah blah against that channel or its admins. Maybe he must change to ve VOICED only, and REGISTERED nick only, so who +V can talk, don't like, -V, advice on PRIV that is a dumb question repeating the same dumb question don't helps..., it is better. But well, each admins has its own of handling it.

Thank you,we accept bank transfer, you are included in the list.
Thanks for your support!

Really impressive game for MSX2. Kai is really the X-basic Specialist.
Hope to see a play-through on YouTube any time soon!

That's too cold I'm there on every RU, moving the tables and so.. The fun of it is to be there, see people, show stuff, get stuff...

Kai, in my eyes, the ripping issue is solved. You have my full support with the game, especially since you promised to change the graphics to original. And if I like the end result, I will most definitely buy it.

For those who are interested, I wrote a very long post after Snout's line at 21:04 about the whole #msxdev issue. Since it was deleted and I still felt I had some things I needed to say, I posted it in a topic here

Kai,

Don't feel discouraged by those posts. Your game is INCREDIBLE, and what you did on MSX is AMAZING.

And I couldn't care less about the ripped gfx. Rip it all, call it Metroid-MSX... what I care is to see something as well done as this release.

And I'd like to ask you to please consider selling a digital version. Shipping costs here to Brazil are always high, we usually ended up being taxed by the government, and the handling by the postal offices are really awful here.

My humble opinion regarding this thread.

Ripped graphics: To be honest, when I saw the video I immediately saw that the graphic style was too similar to Metroids. I am sure that everybody noticed that and if I remember correctly the game was announced as a Metroidvania game. So, to begin, having a Metroid-like graphic style is more than acceptable for a game that, needless to say, follows the Metroidvania style. I also assumed that some graphics were heavily based on some of the Metroid titles, probably slightly modified tiles. This could be acceptable if the game was a port or the authors clearly stated the fact instead of tacitly taking credit for them. Not because licensing, but because of honesty. What was completely unacceptable was ripping graphics in a game that is being sold. I'd better don't say what happens in my job if plagiarism is detected... Anyway, Kai promised to remove ripped graphics so: point for him. However, I cannot understand why the author said he used ripped graphics because of deadlines and now he can change the graphics within a more than reasonable deadline...

Game quality: First thing to say: I have not played the game, I have only seen it on youtube. Said that, the game seems a nice demonstration of what can be done using XBasic: eye-catching graphics, extensive use of third-party music replayers, reasonably good motion, probably too heavy memory requirements. So, roughly speaking, it is the kind of games most of us did back in the 90's but with modern graphic style and more polished. But it does not give me the professional feeling that other recent games give to me. For example, the amount of agents (player, bullets, enemies, ...) moving on screen is very limited (XBasic fault, of course). The player animation is strange (that may be my subjective opinion). The graphic style is slightly unbalanced (for example, the explosions do not fit in the game style). Why I am saying that? Because I cannot believe people comparing it to other recent games in the way they are doing. I think somebody compared it to the ongoing S...... port (which I have seen only on youtube). That game seems, technically and in style, far superior. The same applies to other recent games. Booming Boy is technically superior by far. I would say that even the self-defined small Ninja Savior requires more programming skills. So: in my opinion, Life on Mars may not be a bad game but, please, stop saying it is comparable to other games. Otherwise, people with the skills to really take profit of the MSX capabilities will not see the need to do a good job.

Digital sales: I really hope that everybody in the list finally purchases the item and, actually, I think that everybody in the list will pay. But let's hope that this will continue, that this is not only a "let's show anti-digital they were wrong" tantrum.

{mod: removed off-topic section on banning. there's another topic for that now. no refund on cents!! }

These are my two cents. I have been long time almost inactive in the community and... well... it seems I am sort of coming back to "make friends" ;-)

Partially agree. As you said, the game has to be praised "within the constraints of XBasic". But that is not what I see in this thread. Most comments praise "Live on Mars" within the global context of MSX games, not within the context of XBasic-coded games. Also, even in the context of XBasic games, I don't think it deserves so much appreciation. I cannot see what makes the game so special... unless there are more videos available that I have not seen. What is so special? Graphics... not bad, but with some flaws and basically not original (not necessarily a rip, but undeniably not original). Playability? Don't know, but it seems that one or two re-spawning enemies maximum per screen is rather limited. Music? I have only heard nice background sounds, not actual music, and the sounds are nice because of the OPL4 stuff and a replayer that, I assume, has not been developed by Kai Magazine. The sum of all? I don't know, because the game has not been released, but that means that nobody knows.

I am sure that Kai Magazine spent lots of hours doing the game but that does not mean it is a good game. I may spend tons of hours painting a portrait but I guarantee the result would be a disaster

Again, partially agree. Somebody (I think it was Axel) pointed a problem of many programmers: getting stuck coding a certain routine until perfection is achieved and, as perfection never arrives, the game is never finished. So, if somebody tries to do a similar game in assembly but adding pixel scrolling and line interrupt effects, the game would probably never be finished. But doing the same game, without adding strange extras, in assembler would not require that much, it could have been finished in almost the same amount of time and it would allow much more enemies, better motion and require less memory.

Just a couple of examples. I remember an MSX Dev game, "Zombie Incident", that was also a platformer. The game was finished and is far superior to Life on Mars. The same applies to "Caos Begins" or "The Cure". And I am sure that some of these games were coded by complete newbies. So, a game like Life on Mars can be coded and finished in assembler. XBasic seems just an excuse to release a low quality game as faster as possible.

Anyhow, as a developer, Kai Magazine is, of course, free to do a game like this. The problem I see is praising it and comparing it to other games that really are good and that require much more technical skills and time. The most unfortunate comparison I have seen is with game, which has much more technical and artistic difficulties than Life on Mars.

Yes. Gameplay is the most important aspect of a game. Let's hope that Life on Mars is playable.

Perhaps I should clarify that while many smoother mentioned games use hardware sprites, which are much faster but have serious color and horizontal line limitations, Life on Mars use software sprites (copys) which are slower (not because turbo basic, but because it takes a lot more of work for the vdp to move them, and coding as well, and the vdp works at the same speed on asm and Turbo Basic)
Software sprites requiere a buffer for the background, and a double buffer to show the sprites while in another page the previous sprites are erased by restoring the background, and the new sprites are copied to the new coordenates or with the new frame, which esentially is more "technically" advanced than the "put sprite" command or its equivalent on ASM.
While software sprites are a lot slower (I repeat, due to vdp work, not because turbo basic coding) have other advantadges:
They can be any size and contain up to 15 colors per line without any restriction, and there can be as many in the same horizontal line as you want.
If you guys know about hardware sprites limitations, you should know it is just impossible to show this many sprites with so many colors at the same time, using hardware sprites.
I went for visual quality while mantaining a reasonable speed.

If I ever use hardware sprites on my future games you can be sure those will be as smooth as any other game using hardware sprites.
I belive it is very important to understand this distinction.
Some might think other games are more technically advanced because those are smoother, or because those are simply coded using ASM.
ok, that is one opinion.
Let's review my current game engine for a moment, and see its features:
-software sprites without color, size or line limitations
-4 character sprites simultaneusly of 16 x 32 x 16 full frames each
-4 simultaneous bullets or explosions(bullets have 5 colors, explosions use up to 7 colors, and have a sie of 32x32, and 8 frames
-Full optimization for z80 or r800
-frameskipping
-fmpac, music module, moonsound support
-sampled sound effects for moonsound
-smooth multiple scroll
-huge maps
-restoration of backgrounds after breackable tiles disappear
-non reespawning of special power ups even after leaving the map
-different items which will change the gameplay radically (wait until you get the bombs and you start destroying eveything!)
-different artificial inteligence for each different enemy
and several other things I cannot remember at the moment

Those are quite a lot of features. I cannot talk about other games though.

Regarding the gameplay, you inmediatelly will feel tthe controls and response are quite similar to Treasure of usas.
As a matter of fact there is not much that needs to be changed to make an USAS2 for example, with better sprites (more colors) and same gameplay.

After knowing this perhaps some of you can reevaluate your opinions.

Regarding game, I absolutelly agree it is far more superior (by a lot) and I still cannot belive my eyes when I see the videos.
Please let me respectfully point out that engine is ideal for that kind of game, and it would be amazing to make a port or similar of metroid 1 nes version, with slightly better graphics and much better colors, but since that engine is using screen 4 tiles and hardware sprites, it could not show Life on mars graphics.
It is a matter of choice, regarding the kind of game and the admosphere you want to create.

Kai... I started to reply to your message. I perfectly know how all the stuff you mention work (hard and soft sprites, background restoration, ...) and what you do is not that impressive. Most, if not all, of what you mention is quite common. As for software sprites, there is a game that does far better than yours: BombaMan. Actually, everything you mention was already done, and better, in most of the post-commercial MSX-2 games.

I started to reply until I read that with your engine and techniques, you could perfectly do a USAS2 with same gameplay and better graphics than USAS. If you really believe that, I have nothing more to say.

Why so agressivly put down the effort of a team trying to bring a new MSX game to a long dead platform?

What spectacular great fun games have you done? and even if you did do great spectacular technically impressive AND fun games, it's not appropriate to put down efforts like this , in this manner, in any scenario.

And It doesn't need to be like contra, why would it be like contra? not all game want to have millions bullets on the screen...and some can have billion sprites on screen and be technically impressive, but sadly, they are not fun or appealing, and sometimes they are not fun because they have a billion sprites on screen

I didn't want to post, but sometimes you can't just react as you didn't see anything.

We do not have a DeLorean to try that, but perhaps in a few months we can compare reviews and sale results?
After all, what matters here is not what 1 person thinks but what all the msx community thinks.
Perhaps some facts could clarify this in a few months.

@Setzer

You bring interesting points to the table - welcome to the MRC! I think I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I can appreciate the genius of releases like Uridium, Unknown Reality, Manbow 2 (the list goes on) and agree that Life on Mars is not playing in that league, nor does it pretend to be. Where you and I part ways is that only the most technically advanced releases deserve a lot of praise.

As already has been pointed out, there are more sides to a game (or even a demo) than technical achievements. What is more, not only should we put it in the context of games coded in X-Basic, we should also put it in the context of the software that's actually being released for MSX - or MSX2 in this case. I think many people are happy to finally see an MSX2 game again.

Last but not least, one could even take into account who has developed the software. If developers like ARTRAG, Maggoo, GuyveR800 (etc.) would release this as a final product I might have a bit more of an "is that all?" feeling, whereas if this was released by someone who is just taking their first steps in developing for MSX, like Syn or me, there's more reason to be deeply impressed. Kai is somewhere in between those groups and there's no shame in that. He's making progress as a developer and his "infectuous" enthusiasm about his upcoming releases reflect that progress.

Without these and possible other factors being voiced explicitly, I'm sure most of the MRC members took these into account when placing their comments. Perfectly fine by me, and a good way to stimulate Kai and other developers to keep growing and releasing stuff for MSX.

I am not being aggressive, just stating the facts. Sorry if it seems I was aggressive.

I have not made a single full MSX game in my life. And you? Do you mean that, because I have not made a game I cannot say anything contrary to Live on Mars? According to this reasoning, I must love all of the existing movies because I have never made one myself...

And I am not putting down the effort. I know, and I have said it many times, that a game like this requires lots of hours to be done. But, again, this does not mean that it is a good game. Ohh... I am repeating myself. Just read my previous posts.

Ufff... read my previous messages. I think you have not understood what I said about Contra and MG2.

Same here.

Just to put two examples: you, when stating that a USAS2 is possible with your engine and that Live on Mars is not with that engine; and Grauw, when comparing Live on Mars to Contra and MG2.

It is not the same. A professional publisher is very restrictive. Very high standards have to be met for the publisher to accept a game. What you are doing is like self-publishing a book in Amazon, not like publishing it in Springer or Thomson. So, you may sell the game reasonably well, but a professional published in the 80's would have never accepted your game. And I am sure it would have accepted the other games I mentioned.

@Snout:

Finally something reasonable here, really. I disagree with some of your statements, but I would repeat myself, and, at least, you are reasonable.

Kai... this humbleness does not match your previous messages. To anybody remarking a flaw in your game, you replied with tons of useless technical stuff trying to show you were the best.

I wasn’t saying Life on Mars was comparable to MG2, but I was saying that given the speed MG2 runs at, it could as well have been coded in Basic-kun. I used to turn on the 7 MHz to make the character run faster, even though it messed up the wonderful music. A critique on Konami if you will, but despite that it’s one of my favourite games due to the story and novel gameplay (we haven’t seen much of Life on Mars so we can’t judge the story or progression). From a tech pov, MG2 could’ve run at 60fps easily.

And my comparison to Contra was in relation to the number of enemies on screen, because you brought it up as a limiting factor, and the type of gameplay (platform shooter, screen-fliping). I’ve not claimed superiority of either the one or the other…

About professional or community releases, a lot of terrible crap was released in the 80s.

Yes. But Kai has not compared Live on Mars to E.T. He has compared it to USAS. So, the target 80's publisher is a Konami-quality company.

Funny how we are allready skipping to conclusions. Lets play it first then see.

Ramones: I agree with that entirely, first sentence to last. I think the first category is more shooters and platformers, and the latter category more the RPGs and puzzle/strategy games.

Games that I played a lot are SD Snatcher, MG2, Ys, Fray, DS6, Akin, PA3, Akanbe Dragon, Daiva, Lupin III Cagliostro, Brisk, Elite, Quarth, Psycho World, Aleste, Salamander, King’s Valley II, Rune Master, Eggerland, DOTA, Fire Hawk, Usas, F1 Spirit. Maybe that confirms your supposition about Dutch MSX-ers at least for one of them .

Incidentally the category b) type games with story and progression typically also often require a relatively big time investment to make, so we don’t see a lot of those in scene releases.

Kai, if it is possible improve too the font of texts please. In particular on the presentation screen. Try also to find another effect. The selection of game makes spot. I can even try to help a bit if needed.

Yes, but before that particular remark about publishers.

Neither I can... You are probably right and there is no direct comparison between Live on Mars and game. The were both mentioned together, but not explicitly comparing them. My fault. Sorry for the confusion regarding this comparison.

That may be a valid reason for Dutch users. Now let's find an explanation for non-Dutch users. (Just joking, no need to continue discussing this)

Are you my evil twin? Just joking! :-)
You are saying exactly what I was trying to reject: fullscreen multi-layered scroll... where? code myself... why? a game... where? I have only seen a small video, not a game. And what you classify as a "multi-layered full-screen scroll" does not appear in-game in the video. Is sort of a transition screen, so absolutely no game there.

Finally, "made in XBasic or not the game itself is impressive". Ok. You know my opinion on this subject.

I think we have reached a dead end... no, a deadlock... no, this is a Basic thread, we've reached the GOTO 10 :-)

This is my last message regarding this particular subject. I will read and post in other threads, and maybe also in this one, but not about the quality of the game. We all have our points of view, nobody is going to change his mind, and I don't want my arrival here to be the source of useless arguments.

Slotman, technically it's not a multilayer scroll, but a parallax one. Easily doable with line interrupts and copys on MSX2.

A multilayer scroll would mean that sometimes the upper or lower wall that are scrolling dissapear and you could see the background image there. But, as I said, it's a parallax scroll, not multilayer. Effective, but not impressive under my point of view, of course.

That is why people do not know the Artrag scrolling routines for SC5 and SC8, he manages to make 50 FPS smooth horizontal scroll on MSX2 with almost all CPU free and all the sprites availables for the gameplay. The Green Beret and Uridium 2 demos are there. The routines are public domain, so, have a check Artrag scrolling demos.

Hi Grauuw. I think we are on total off-topic. Maybe we need a new forum thread to discuss/talk about styles, new games, etc.. What you think?

{mod: ontopic only please}

Thanks Kai Magazine for making a game on the MSX 2

Order placed at kennethalbero mail address for the english version. I assume it's out already as the 10 days period has passed?

Hello, I did not recieved any email from you. I answered every single message I have recieved by now.
The address is kennethalbero@hotmail.com

Great news! Looking forward to my copy!

Happy new year!

If it helps: you could try to test weird slot configurations on openMSX to try if it's working and possibly debug and/or fix it.

Other than that: please take your time to make it as good as you intend to!

Sorry, you have not. Unless your e-mail address in your profile is wrong or my provider blocks yours.
Haven't had a reply.
I'm awaiting instructions.

Hello Meits, I have been checking all the emails I recieved, and I cannot find yours. I found a copule of messages from December 16th from eVuLoPaH who mentions you and your beautiful musics, since I mentioned him we are looking for music composers for future msx projects, but I did not find a message from you.
I guess hotmail must have sent it to the "non wanted email" and since I recieve many dozens every day, I did not see yours.
Please try to contact me again to my email: kennethalbero@hotmail.com and you can also try kaimagazine@outlook.com
I will be paying attention to the spam/unwanted folders for the next copule of days.
You can also give me your email here, so I can write to you, but I understand if you do not want to post your email here.
eVuLoPaH could send me your email as well. I will write to him.
Sorry about that.

Please if anyone wrote to me and did not recieve a response by now, please post it here so we can solve it.
Thanks!

As far as I tested, it works on original konami scc+ but not on fpga scc+.
As I said, right now it works on originally manufactured konami scc cartridges (scc+ included)

I belive that is the case. Artrag will explain it to you better, but right now he is on holydays and he has little access to internet (this is why I am trying to answer for him even thoug I am not technically qualified).
If he can fix the sub slot detection I belive it will work.
Anyway since his engine had to be implemented on a turbo-basic game which was not developed for this routine, he has very little space to work and it is very difficult to fit all that code in such an small space.
Let's see if he can do it.
Anyway future games will be designed to be fitted in his routine, not the opposite such as in this case, so it will be way easier for him to implement all the necessary code.
This was a last "minute" (copule of weeks) experiment, but he accomplished the unthinkable! (multi task pcm scc samples from basic while fm/music module music is being played, without slowdown!) I still cannot belive my eyes (ears), even thoug I have it working on my msx at the moment. Amazing!

Yeah just gotta get that subslot selection right first I think so there’s no restrictions on which roms are in what slot.

The MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD supports the phase reset, so it should work fine (I just tested in Synthesix), however it’s worth noting that unlike the Konami Sound Cartridge, the deformation register is at E0H in stead of C0H. At least in SCC mode (haven’t tried SCC+ mode). Maybe it’s easiest to just always set both E0H and C0H…

Edited my post here to include a picture for the MFRSCC+SD.

I did recieve your message this time, and I just sent you a message in return.

Hello, after recieving several messages from msx.org users who contacted me weeks ago via the personal contact form, I see I did not recieve any of the messages sent to me using that method, so I disabled that option in my profile.

By now, I answered ALL messages I recieved.
If anyone has not recieved an answer from me by now, please contact me at: kennethalbero@hotmail.com

Thanks!

One last thing:
Regarding the videos, this have been recorded on openMSX, and since the game works at a different framerate than the video, this creates an annoying ghost effect and courtain effect, making smooth scrolls (in the intro), or smooth movements (like the ship moving from right to left on the first scenne of the intro, or the character's or bullets movement.
The actual game is not that annoying. On turbo-R will always work completelly smooth. On msx2 will often skip frames, but the movement is less annoying than in the video.
Another last thing
Since the ROM is heavily compressed, the MSX cpu has to de-compress all the loaded data on real time. This is a relatively fast job for the R800, but load times on z80 will take longer, so do not worry, this is normal.

The last last thing
Do not neglect the Bomb Tournament mini game, this was the original game we intended to do, based on an old japanese mini game called Bombkura, but we complicated ourselves with a story mode which took 4 months instead of 4 weeks... But the original idea, bomb tournament, is lots of fun for 2 or 3 simultaneous players, and it runs at 60FPS on turbo-R (as a matter of fact the Life on Mars game could have run at 60FPS as well, but the game would be unplayable, so I had to slow it down from 60 to 30 fps in order to become playable! yes! there are a copule of lines in the main engine constantly slowing down the game on r800, on pruppose!)
So, get yourself a copule of friends and at least 1 joystick (2 players can use the keyboard, the third requieres a joystick) and give it a go, you will not regret it! It has many hours and days of re-playability value, so make sure to give it a go with 3 players!

Hello everyone!
After several days of no bug reports from the digital version purchasers, we decided to flash the final version into the cartridges, and we checked every cartridge one by one. This took a copule of days, but all cartridges are recorded now, and we started making packages, so the shipments will begin on Monday.
Thank you everyone for your huge patientie

Kai Magazine.

Yes, that is correct. In this game you do not actually die. As explained the first time you reach the elevator, when your shield reaches zero, you will get transported to the last msx terminal room area you have been, with all your current progress intact.
So that is perfectly ok

Almost forgot. Is this cart still available? English version please!

Looks awesome!

I do think it's a bit quiet after the release..
How are people liking the game?

Im enjoying it, a nice release to start the year with.

I´m still waiting mine...